How to make the most of a Python or Django conference.
Carlton Gibson 0:06
Hi, and welcome to another episode of Django Chat. I'm Carlton Gibson. I'm here with everwood. Will. Hi. Hello, how are you?
Will Vincent 0:12
I'm great. I'm excited today, I think we're going to be talking about conferences, right?
Carlton Gibson 0:16
Yeah, we're going to talk about the conferences. Well, in the Django scene in the Python see more widely or just Django?
Will Vincent 0:21
I think both of them. I mean, this is relevant because you just came back from giving the keynote at Django con Europe. And I'm, as we record about to head off to pi con in the United States, which is 4000 or something, Python people and he has a lot to say about conferences and attending them watching the videos online. And so we're gonna get into all that today. Maybe do you want to start off so? So Django right? There's a couple main Django conferences. There's Django con Europe,
Carlton Gibson 0:46
and Django con us Gen Con us. I guess I could just call that Django con. And then we have Django con Europe. And then there's next year there's going to be a Django con Africa, which hopefully have an episode about that with some interviews I did at Gen Con Europe in a few weeks when I get ready. Editing knows. And then the I think that's all the Django Australia right and there's like, smaller Django used to have it. Oh knows the Django, Django con Australia as well, which is part of pi con Australia.
Will Vincent 1:13
Yes, I think it's part of pi con this year. But in the past, it's been its own thing.
Carlton Gibson 1:16
But is that right? I thought they've always taken them together. Anyway, that's details. The point is that around the world in all these glamorous locations, there are these great conferences you can go to.
Will Vincent 1:25
Yeah. And then on top of that, there's many many more Python conferences of which Django is obviously a big part of them. Pi con in the US being the largest one but icon Australia airs will do in the show notes. python.org. You can see conferences, regular meetups, literally every major city in the world. So there's a lot of things happening out there. So let's talk about so let's talk about what it's like to attend Django con Europe. So you were just there you were giving the keynote. So this is the the big you know what is out you can talk to me about being the Django fellow and giving a keynote and I can talk about I attended my first Django con last Fall sort of as a regular attendee, and we can compare and contrast those experiences.
Carlton Gibson 2:04
Well, okay, you say I'm a regular attendee. I've been in the Django world for ever and ever, but it was only 2017 that I attended my first Django Django event Django con Europe in Florence. And I was just absolutely blown away. You know, this whole talk about came for the language. I stayed for the community. I had no idea. And I went to Django con. And I was like, wow, this is what I've been missing. This is super. And you know what I always say about Django. It's called a community, unlike others in tech. And it really is. It's it's inclusive and caring and just wonderful. And so 2018 I went to Heidelberg, and I gave my first conference talk there. And then I gave another little talk in Django con us last year in San Diego, and I was, you know, I submitted for the Django con Europe this year, which was in Copenhagen. And they asked me to do the keynote and I was one of the keynotes and I was like, What Fantastic Super Hornet just amazing. You wanted to do that. So I gave the first talk, which was nerve racking given that on the morning I got up and I ended up going to the wrong location. I looked on the looked on the website and my mobile phone and I just typed in the first address I saw I copied and paste the first address I saw and it was the venue for the Sprint's so I'm like, you know, just arriving on time and there's nobody there.
Will Vincent 3:24
It's like a desert. Like every, every bad dream ever about missing a tester.
Carlton Gibson 3:29
Yeah. Except it was so instead of being at the conference, drinking too much coffee getting overly worked up at the venue. I was busy getting a sweat on running down to the to the venue, but I made it in time and it all went okay.
Will Vincent 3:42
Yeah, it will. And those those videos are up online now for Django con Europe, which is and this is something I want to promote in this podcast is all the videos are online very soon thereafter and in terms of so you don't have to attend in person to get a lot out of these conferences. I mean, I watch a ton of these videos. These are some of the best intermediate advanced level, some beginner tutorials out there on everything Django. They're unbelievable resource. I'm just going by the number of views on YouTube. They're usually on YouTube, but they're criminally underused. I mean, it's only like a couple hundred or thousand for even the best talks. So we'll link to those but so what is it like? So what's the experience? Like you mentioned Sprint's I mean, so when I went to Django con, I didn't know what to expect. And it turns out there is usually there's tutorials for like a day or two, which are paid things you can often attend like half day workshops, there's two to three days of talks. And then a lot of times there's another two or so days of sprints where people are working on Django itself, right is Django con Europe that same structure, because that's Django con us.
Carlton Gibson 4:46
Yeah, exactly the same like you can go a day early. So I think on the Tuesday before, Django con Europe, there's a Django girls workshop. I don't know if there were workshops before but also during the main surging Django con Europe is a single track conference, which is lovely because you're all in the same room. You'll go to the same talks. I really like it. Oh yeah,
Will Vincent 5:03
Django con us is there's two tracks. Yeah, two or three, like, you know, even but it makes room, two rooms right next to each other. So it's all right there. But
Carlton Gibson 5:13
yeah, and there's also the hallway track as well. So if you're not in the talk, you're out. busy talking. But yeah, they have the same. They'd have workshops and then the sprints afterwards the Sprint's I always thought the Sprint's were for experts getting on with super expert hard thing, but it turns out that they're equally for people coming along and contributing to Django for the very first time. And so that's you know, super if you want to get involved in Django, come to the Sprint's there'll be people to help you help you find a ticket help you work on a problem. You can join in with somebody else's project you can learn how contributing to open source work so the Sprint's are phenomenal, yeah,
Will Vincent 5:49
I would love to do that this year. I didn't do that last year. And I think I felt as you did that, you know, who am I to contribute to Django which we've done episodes on this, but I believe they organize the team. So it's, it's designed to have a mix of, you know, someone who is quite experienced in the middle and beginners and, you know, there's thousands and thousands of tickets. So there's something for everyone. So that's, I hope to do that. And that's it. It's good to encourage people, no matter your ability to get involved and contribute back that way.
Carlton Gibson 6:18
Yeah, and it's not in the bag yet, but I'm really hoping that for Django con us this year in San Diego we can have a like a I don't know what we call it but a kind of workshop for people who are when the when the Sprint's start a workshop for people who are contributing for the first time or need a refresher, perhaps that would be a great idea we can can offer a kind of group environment and mentoring environment. And as I say, I don't know if that's done and dusted yet but that's what I'm really hoping. Because at the sprints at Django con Europe, I was helping lots of people but I was doing it one on one, and that doesn't scale and I was you know, I was absolutely exhausted and not getting around all the people who needed help. So if we can do it in a group environment more that would be amazing. And then hopefully we can learn from In future conferences,
Will Vincent 7:01
Yeah, that'd be wonderful. And hopefully I can help out in that. I mean, so in terms of size so I mentioned Python is thousands of people. I think Django con us was four or 500 maybe 600. Is Django con Europe similar myth. Yeah,
Carlton Gibson 7:14
like 370 400 something like that. I think they you know, it's possible to make it bigger but Gen Con York's got this singletrack thing and it's not it's really intimate. You know, it's Yeah,
Will Vincent 7:26
I that's what I that's what I found. It's, I mean, it's really every almost everyone in the Django community who I'd heard about or read or seen work was was there and just available you know, either giving a talk or in the hallway and at meals. I found yet that the unstructured time was some of the best best time because you just have sit down and have a coffee with someone who are you Oh, I'm, you know, doing something really interesting with Django or I'm new to Django or, and Django con us people are from all over the world. I'd say it'll seem to at least half the people were not from the United States, which was fantastic.
Carlton Gibson 7:59
Yeah. I think like a Django con one thing that's, you know, I've been to tech events in other communities and other technologies and Django and Python as well. But you know, Django, particularly the Code of Conduct always in place. So, you know, you're never going to be threatened in a way that you might be other tech events. And there's a there's a expectation to be open and welcoming and to meet more people. And, you know, so you can go up to anybody, and you can say, Hello. And that's expected and people will come up to you and say, Hello. Whereas other tech environments I've been in, it's like, Oh, I can't go and talk to anybody. And so for that, it's becomes really friendly. And then you go to your second one, it's like, wow, I haven't seen since NASA. And it's
Will Vincent 8:43
Yeah, I agree. I and I second that I've I've been to a few tech events, and I think Jango Khan was the most friendly, the most welcoming the most open. The most committed, you said your code of conduct and trying to, you know, people very adamant about if there's someone doing something they shouldn't To stop that, so it's a wonderful environment. I mean, so I went. So last year I gave, I gave I submitted to do a talk, because I'd never done a vendor Django con. And it is, there is some expense involved. I should we should mention, there's financial assistance they can offer if you're, depending on your situation. So don't be put off by the fact that it's a couple hundred dollars to attend. But for In my case, I submitted a talk I was fortunate enough to be accepted. It's pretty competitive for talks, but they want a wide spectrum. It's not just advanced people and advanced things. I mean, I really appreciate it. There was beginner stuff intermediate, you know, the full scope.
Carlton Gibson 9:38
Yeah. And then they've got they're looking for first time speakers as well. So if it's your first time meeting to talk, you can say that in your application, and then there's a there's a kind of allocation for that. And they're looking for community talks, which are non technical. And then technical talks, targeting each level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, as you said, So,
Will Vincent 9:57
submit and I think Yeah, and I think too, It's, uh, you know, I on my journey of Django, I think the best time to teach something is when you're learning it. So for me, it's a little bit harder for me to give a beginner intermediate level talk, because I've kind of internalized a lot of the things. So it's, it takes a little more work to understand, oh, these are the points that are confusing for people. But if you've just I mean, people will give talks, for example, if they want to learn something, and they don't know it, they'll say, oh, I'll submit a talk on this. And then I'll be forced to, you know, become an expert in it. And going through that process, they'll be able to see all the gotchas that a beginner would go through. And I find those are the best talks when someone guides your hand and says, look, here's, you know, here's this tricky thing here. And here's how you get there. So in no way should people think you have to be an expert to give a talk. If anything, I think it's almost harder maybe to give a talk as an expert, because it's easier to assume people are on your level when they're there not necessarily with knowledge.
Carlton Gibson 10:53
Yeah. And also who you're talking to, right. So the expert is always not always but the trap. The danger is that you're talking To the other experts ran your talk becomes more kind of uninteresting, because it's too hard. And it's much better to give a talk that's targeting the beginner, the advanced beginner. The intermediate.
Will Vincent 11:13
Yeah, everyone, everyone kind of looks up a little bit in level in terms of what they want to speak about, and to whom I mean, I remember it. So my talk was on authentication Django rest framework. And I remember being touched that you were in the audience, you came up and said, Hello, before, you know, that's a perfect example. Right? I mean, who am I I barely know, Django rest framework and the, you know, co main maintainer and, you know, this big poobah was there in the audience. And you know, but there's still things people got out of that talk at an expert level and, and then a lot of beginner intermediate. I think just having someone go over the scope of whatever topic it is, is interesting. And I remember a lot of people came up to me after the talk asking really great questions. And you know, if I could answer them, I wouldn't if I couldn't, because I had so many people ask me questions. I could connect them with other people. And that experience actually really brought about the idea of there should be a podcast on Django because just my experience at Django con itself was so illuminating and so interesting. And, you know, wanted to highlight chats about Django, you know, regardless of level of people. And people are people aren't putting on errors, either. I mean, if people know something they'll say, and if they don't, you know, they'll say it too. So,
Carlton Gibson 12:23
yeah, I mean, in this like this, what you come to see is that the people who you've sort of held up as, Wow, that's so and so. And they've been contributing to Django for Well, since before version one. And they're just a normal person whom they're really nice and modest and humble. And, you know,
Will Vincent 12:39
yeah, yeah, no, exceedingly so. And I think the environment too is, you know, there are, there's cocktail receptions and stuff, but a large number of people don't drink. There's no pressure around that which when I was in Silicon Valley, there certainly was pressure to drink at Tech events. So there's a really nice mix of if you want to have some drinks, you can but plenty of people don't And everyone's just really, really nice. And so you know, I came away from that experience really energized about Django about the work that I was doing. People had read my book and told me about it, which was, means a lot more than just seeing numbers on a screen. And so I heartily recommend going it is an investment of time. There is a little bit of money, but it's a huge benefit. And you meet so many people and those relationships continue on. Well, after the conference.
Carlton Gibson 13:27
Yeah. And then, as you said earlier on as well. There's the videos online. So you know, you're constantly trying to learn and trying to develop and trying to build your skill base. And there's only so much reading of books you can do and whatnot. Those videos are super, there'll be like half an hour long talk on
I don't know,
Will Vincent 13:47
everything.
Carlton Gibson 13:48
Well, I'm just trying to think of one from Gen Con Europe. So there's one on the security headers that you can set that all that Django was set for you which make your website more secure. Well, Adam Johnson, who's one of the core contributors gave out A short talk at Django con Europe in Copenhagen on security headed. So you know, you can watch that talk and all of a sudden, you know what settings to set on Django and what they do and how they make your project more secure. And that was something you could do on the train or on the, you know, you could cue that up to watch it whenever.
Will Vincent 14:14
Yeah, no, I make it a point to I mean, maybe this was just me, but, and I can be obsessive. But I've watched all the Django Khan videos for the last five years or so. But, yeah, but But again, the numbers of if you look at the numbers of people viewing it, it is insanely low. It is so low, it is crazy. I mean, for example, I just found out that the talk I gave last year, was one of the more popular talks at the conference, which is great to hear, but it only has two 3000 views online, which to me, you know, I mean, that's what we're getting like a week with this podcast. People are not looking at these videos, they're fantastic videos, you should go check them out. And often the slides are attached, as well. And I mean, so this most recent Django con Europe Tom Christie Create a Django rest framework, how to really end up talking about sketching out Django redesign is the title talking about async. And the work he and others are doing to bring async to, to Django to API's, and it's very educational really walks you through, like, what, you know, why does this matter? What are the challenges? were the things he's working on? I mean, just a fantastically comprehensive talk. Because, you know, it's an area for me that I'm not that knowledgeable about, but you're all gonna need to be in. Yeah. And he really went through the full scope.
Carlton Gibson 15:30
It's Yeah, new and like, so you know, I had conversations at the conference about AC income around around Tom's talk. And the question, Well, why do we need this? Well, the first thing is, there are some services which need the high throughput of an async service, and Python needs to have a solution. So you can't you know, we shouldn't have to change language because we need an async solution that we need these hide. Yeah.
Will Vincent 15:53
So Django, right.
Carlton Gibson 15:55
And then so why should Django have it? Well, Django should have it at a basic level because it's the batteries included web framework. Right, you shouldn't have to change web remote just to get the basic async endpoint. Now, you know, maybe Django won't have all the async features in the world. And maybe there's a reason to step to a different async framework for that. But Django has to have a basic solution, because it's the batteries included Python web. Yeah. And that's why, you know, so it's a kind of interesting development. And all of that came out of Tom's talk. And you know,
Will Vincent 16:26
what, that brings up another thing about doing talks, which is that the review process is anonymous. So it's not, it's really not the case of, you know, people picking their friends for these talks. It's the proposals are anonymously reviewed. So just because you're some big name doesn't mean necessarily mean your talk will be accepted, and they intentionally want a wide variety of people. So that's meant to be an encouraging statement. I mean, I remember when I submitted my talk, I was, yeah, again, like, Who am I but they, they want first timers, they want regular contributors to Django notch The same people at every conference.
Carlton Gibson 17:03
Yeah, and, you know, do submit, it's a good, it's a great in a way, it's not gonna make you it's a great way of boosting your profile, it's a great opportunity to do something. It's a great, you know, learning opportunity. It's just super, but I mean, it's not going to give you anything, you know what, you know, you're not gonna become famous or anything like that, because it's,
Will Vincent 17:23
it doesn't, it doesn't take that long to submit either. I mean, at least Django con us is, you know, it's a title. It's a short description, then slightly longer description. And, and then, you know, quick, who are you? It doesn't, doesn't take that long to do. No, but it's a
Carlton Gibson 17:38
really it's a 20th. It's a great opportunity. Yeah. So may 20, may 20. issue for
Will Vincent 17:42
May 20. Yeah, I think. So you do need to get in by that. And I
Carlton Gibson 17:46
hear you submitted that's cheeky.
Will Vincent 17:48
Well, that this is why I mentioned the anonymous thing. So. So when you when you submit, they use a service called pay per call and there's an option to make your submission public. I guess. So you can share with family and friends or whatever. And so I, I did do a tweet saying, hey, I've just submitted, here's the title of my talk, which actually, so it's fine to say you submitted a talk but putting the title in there abuses that anonymous process. So I took that tweet down. So that was a good lesson learned, you know, because I don't shouldn't matter who I am for the for the talk. So submit the talk, you know, do a tweet saying I submitted a talk and everyone else should but you know, it's not a popularity contest. So don't you know, don't put the name of your talk in a tweet or a blog post.
Carlton Gibson 18:32
Yeah. Because that undermines the take was the takeaway undermines the process, but that's fine.
I mean, I guess yeah,
so um, what else I took I took about the I've we sort of mentioned it, but the important thing at the conferences is the hallway track as well. So you know, what's your out there? or What was your favorite talk? Oh, is this one and you build up and
Will Vincent 18:51
yeah, that's what I saw the Django luminaries I read online, they never seem to be in a talk. They were just in the hallway the whole time. So there is I think that is like the after a couple of you, you know, you realize the hallway track is the, because all the talks are online. So it's a mix for everyone. I mean, I sat in all the talks because that's that's how I am. But plenty of people say, Oh, well, I'll go to a couple of talks and I'll see the rest online and you know, just the chance to have one on ones or go get a meal with with someone is really what's what it's about. So any other What else should we say? I mean, you should go to conferences, you should watch the talks you should submit. They're not scary. It's incredibly friendly. People don't use these. Enough. The Django con Europe talks are all out. Now on YouTube. There's I guess there's one more we talked about beforehand. Dr. Didn't happen. Did you want to highlight that one?
Carlton Gibson 19:39
Yeah, it was super close. by Mike Jarrell. It was another one of the day's keynote keynotes. It was just super it's like you know about documentation and how you make your documentation stronger. And for me, it's one of the big things because Django is open tickets. The number three category is documentation tickets, and you know, Django Doc's are just super, but if we could somehow focus on And get that that number down. That would be a massive chunk of tickets which aren't necessarily technically difficult in themselves. But they need, again, love and time and effort. And you know, so her talk I really liked. It's called doc. So it didn't happen again. that's available on YouTube now.
Will Vincent 20:16
All right. Well, I think we've given our peace on this.
Carlton Gibson 20:19
Yeah. Not when we can go over and say the other things. Go to the conferences. They're great. Yeah. But they are.
Will Vincent 20:23
Yeah. All right. Well, everyone, thanks for listening. This week. We'll be back with future episodes on Django. And you can always go to Django chat calm or to chat Django on Twitter. And please also, if you have questions or feedback, let us know. We only see numbers on a screen for this podcast. So we know it's resonating with people but we'd love to hear personal feedback, good, bad and all the rest about what you think. All right. Bye bye. Join us next time.